warriorsroleplayfandomcom-20200214-history
Forum:The State of Things
Due to the deplorable state of this Wiki, I'm offering my services in an advisory role. This place needs guidelines, instructions, and standards. Right now it's basically a moshpit of information with no structure or order. It's utterly impossible for someone new to find anything they might be looking for. Sysops (and there are way too many of you to be excusing the state of things), feel free to ask questions and the like of me. Up to and including things about templating, or specific requests for graphics and the like (which I would be willing to work on if you work within my timeline. Also: I've noticed the cat template from Warriors Wikia on here. Have you acquired permission from the person who created to image to extend it to another Wikia? If not, it MUST be removed immediately as it was only released for recolor and reuse on wiki. (I did the kitten, and will grant permission for it's use here) Anyways, I'm looking to help you despite my lack of time. [[User:Kitsufox| Kitsufox ]][[User talk:Kitsufox| Fox's Den]] 21:45, 21 January 2009 (UTC) Hi Kitsu. We're talking about the image problem over the IRC, and we're trying to deal with it. FxC's been gone, though, and we need her present to talk about it, unless you know how I can contact the creator of the blanks. We have that many sysops (and I don't plan on making anymore for a long time unless we somehow get over 5,000 articles) because we need people from different rps as sysops. I'm gonna need help with policies and such, but I've got things, such as MediaWiki pages, covered. We have a Project Maps for Role Play locations. GB 23:24, 21 January 2009 (UTC) I ended up putting out requests for blanks all over the place. Have you tried emailing FxC? You can if they have one entered with their account and it enabled. It may or may not work, but it's worth a go. Policies, I can help you write. The most important one right now is getting the "Warriors RP Wiki is NOT" and the policies on listing games. And you have an absolute excessive of Sysops. And what are you going to do when other games need representation? You've already created a precedent that says the admin of any game has the right to that status. But their isn't much you can do about that. At the very least, you can make each one in charge of thier own game's pages. Though you have a MAJOR problem where characters are concerned... I'd almost suggest that characters should be sub-pages of the game pages, just because each game can have a character by each name. You've got a mess brewing. At least, you need to get a naming system in place that attributes characters to games. Really, the policy stuff is hyper important right now... Because there's going to need to be a lot of page moving to sort out the issue. [[User:Kitsufox| Kitsufox ]][[User talk:Kitsufox| Fox's Den]] 03:22, 22 January 2009 (UTC) I could email FxC. I actually know her email address. There have been a couple of cases where characters have shared the same name, but we're sorting that problem out. If others join adn wish to post their Role Plays, I wouldn't mind helping them with whatever they need. GB 03:38, 22 January 2009 (UTC) I think attaching a game name to every character would be a good idea. So would outlawing talk page "Join my game" tosh. Once sorting and things like that are sorted out there will be no need for such annoying spaming. [[User:Kitsufox| Kitsufox ]][[User talk:Kitsufox| Fox's Den]] 22:22, 22 January 2009 (UTC) As a bureaucrat here, I think I should take place in the discussion. The outlawing is probably a good idea, we could maybe set up a forum for joining purposes. Just a thought. The sysop number, that is a problem too. I know SB is your sister and all, but I think you might have been a little to quick making her a sysop. I haven't seen her make more than 10 edits here. Also, we do need a policy. For the naming issue, I think we should put something like the RP abbreviation after it like Mistystar (CoLP). That way, we can get rid of disambigs. The policy Warriors Role Play Wiki is NOT should be started straight away.--Jakko123 23:24, 22 January 2009 (UTC) The more people in this kind of discussion the better. And there dosen't even need to be a forum for recruiting and joining. Those matters belong on the SITES of the games, not here. Unless you're intending this to a place that people RP (in which case CoSC dosen't belong here, as we've got a setup tailored specifically for our needs). Policy writing should be the top priority of the staff, though. At least that 'Not' policy and getting together a set of listing instructions. Templates for listing games wouldn't hurt, either. So that at least certain information ends up the same for all games... Maybe even a template that doles out categories so that people can look up games by difficulty, Canon of Fanon clans and the like... So that there's all sorts of sorting that would make it so people can acctually find things. [[User:Kitsufox| Kitsufox ]][[User talk:Kitsufox| Fox's Den]] 00:18, 23 January 2009 (UTC) SB's been kinda busy; she's likely gonna catch up on here and Emily Windsnap Wiki this weekend. Yeah, we should put the RP name after the article. GB 05:38, 23 January 2009 (UTC) Alright, the articles are successfully renamed. I think we should delete all of the Disambigs now then. :For our first policy, I'll write Warriors RP Wiki is NOT, based off of Warriors Wiki is NOT. It will be marked in progress, so it won't be official just yet. You two both can edit it.--Jakko123 02:36, 25 January 2009 (UTC) ::With your start that clarifies some points for me about the place. I'm just going to reword some things, and maybe clean up a bit, and then we'll see what you think. [[User:Kitsufox| Kitsufox ]][[User talk:Kitsufox| Fox's Den]] 17:43, 25 January 2009 (UTC) Gee, it sure looks good to me!--Jakko123 21:27, 25 January 2009 (UTC) :Then it's time for y'all to take it through whatever policy approval process you're going to be using. And then it's time to create guidelines and templates for the pages for RPGs. [[User:Kitsufox| Kitsufox ]][[User talk:Kitsufox| Fox's Den]] 23:04, 25 January 2009 (UTC) ::I think that we should use something similar to Mousestar (NCC) for the guidelines. We'll put the info, then the history. --Jakko123 02:48, 26 January 2009 (UTC) :::That's good. Mousey did a good job on that.--Shaf Girl 03:29, 26 January 2009 (UTC) ::::In a lot of ways, Mousey's character is pretty good. It's a nice organized display of information. The only issue I do see isn't a true issue, but more a concern: The character page covers the character in relation to multiple games. Certainly the character dosen't have the same history on both games, and certainly the personality isn't identical on both games because the characters have had different lives. The random inclusion of what appears to be a incident from RP in the personality is a tad weird, too. It is an allright sheet to use to define how to set things up. As a side note... what is there a 'Book Appearance' section on the template for basic character information? Anyways... If one of you wants to frame out a set of guidelines, I'll prod them and such later. Since I'm not heading the project (just advising) I'd prefer not to define the standards you'd be enforcing. [[User:Kitsufox| Kitsufox ]][[User talk:Kitsufox| Fox's Den]] 14:26, 27 January 2009 (UTC) :::::What I meant was the same format. I didn't mean that it was absolutely perfect. And on another concern... Your 'Featured Role Play'... Isn't it a bit soon to even be CONSIDERING featuring sites? At the moment you don't even have standards for what makes a good page for games or characters, let alone what would make one exceptional. You might want to discontinue the feature program until such time as you have more than 2 games and a 'what you're not' policy handled. [[User:Kitsufox| Kitsufox ]][[User talk:Kitsufox| Fox's Den]] 14:26, 27 January 2009 (UTC) Op. Another concern I'd forgotten I'd thought of while at work a couple of days ago and had forgotten until now. And it's for including characters or information about characters in games that are not listed here. Game Admins should be able to opt out completely of any information about there game ending up here. There should probably be rules that help protect admins and maintain their rights. And since we don't know every game, saying "Unless there's an admin or staff member from your game to monitor on behalf of that game and ensure integrity, that game's information and characters cannot appear on this website". [[User:Kitsufox| Kitsufox ]][[User talk:Kitsufox| Fox's Den]] 14:29, 27 January 2009 (UTC) :The status of a Role Play doesn't have anything to do with the Wiki, Kitsu. While we are waiting to do the Feature Article, the FRP is okay. And I think anyone from a Role Play able to post good info from the RP is aloud to put up info. GB 22:37, 28 January 2009 (UTC) ::That's the thing, though. Don't you worry about integrity? Remember the mess with the one RP that people were posting false information about? Without a representative from the game here, how will you be expected to patrol that? Shouldn't you be concerned with integrity and accuracy? Considering the place is free advertising and displaying character will draw in new members for people's sites, there's no reason there won't be games willing to be listed. But Shouldn't game owners be able to say "I'm not listing my game" and have done with it? Characters belong to more than the players in question. They belong to the games they inhabit. If games aren't listed, how will you know where to go for information about that game to ensure that false information isn't being listed? Or that games aren't simply using this as their entire character processing mechanism (from what I understand, that is NOT the purpose of this website). And until you have standards, my comments stand. Right now there's no reason to feature any article because you can't even establish what a GOOD article is. Do your groundwork and get the place setup, then worry about accolades. [[User:Kitsufox| Kitsufox ]][[User talk:Kitsufox| Fox's Den]] 02:36, 29 January 2009 (UTC) I don't know, but I don't think that's what GB means. There is a difference between the Feature RP and the Feature Article. The Feature RP has to do with the RP's statis. The Feature Article has to do with the actual article on the wiki, and how the format is.--Shaf Girl 02:10, 30 January 2009 (UTC) :But won't a basic requirement for being able to be featured be "complies with all guidelines for a Role Play Information page"? [[User:Kitsufox| Kitsufox ]][[User talk:Kitsufox| Fox's Den]] 04:27, 30 January 2009 (UTC) ::I agree with Kitsu, we need SOME type of Guidelines for an article to even be nominated for the Featured Article or Featured RP Star 00:16, 31 January 2009 (UTC) :::Well, you are right. Just different guidelines. I think that there's one guideline for Feature RP: there has to be at least twelve active members on the site. But we ought to add more rules. As for Feature Article, we could put up similar guidelines like those on the warriors wiki.--Shaf Girl 15:04, 31 January 2009 (UTC) ::::Basicaly, once you set up the requirements for quality on each type of article (Character, Game, Game Information, Plot, what have you), you can just say "To be featured an article must meet all requirements for its article type" or something equally generic that says "Meet the base requirements". I also think you may wish to add another feature category. You're going to have mostly character articles on the site. That's already clear. So having a Feature Character (perhaps that changes weekly or monthly or something like) might be a good idea. Features for the RPs themselves should probably last longer (there will be less game pages, but for each game you can expect at least a score of character pages). I'm not even sure if you'll even need a generic "Feature Article" category at the moment (someday, if you build up a large base of RP related essays or something, maybe...) because technically the "game information" pages would be deeply related to the core games... So it would seem strange to feature any of those in any way without featuring the related game. [[User:Kitsufox| Kitsufox ]][[User talk:Kitsufox| Fox's Den]] 15:13, 2 February 2009 (UTC) Ok, I have some guidelines for Feature RP. 1. There has to be twelve members. 2. The game has to have been running for three months. 3. There has to have been at least one major plotline. 4. The site must have at least five pages. That's what I've got so far. Anyone else got ideas?--Shaf Girl 23:39, 2 February 2009 (UTC) :I suggest dropping the "There has to have been at least one major plotline." requirement or changing the amount of time. Or clarifying that the plot dosen't have to be completed (as the current wording suggests). CoSC's first major plotline ran for well over 3 months. I think it pushed the edges of a year, acctually. And plots at our game run longer than ever now, because we run in a 2 RL Months = 1 Moon timescale. And could you clarify what you mean with "The site must have at least five pages."? [[User:Kitsufox| Kitsufox ]][[User talk:Kitsufox| Fox's Den]] 04:08, 3 February 2009 (UTC) Kitsu, CoSC isn't even on this site! It doesn't matter if the plotline pushed a year, it isn't on the site. Once you put an article for it on to the site, you can compare everything to it. If you won't, then don't compare it. Also, I think Shaf means 5 pages about it on the wiki.--Jakko123 21:23, 3 February 2009 (UTC) :I was using CoSC's first plot as an example. It is automatic that I'll use it as my baseline. I will not write up CoSC on this site until there are a set of instructions. Why? Because I don't know what is required, and I'd like to write things once and only once rather than have to go back and fiddle with things. As for having 5 pages about it on the wiki... Would those include character pages? Considering CoSC is the only Warriors RPG I'm on, of course it's going be the site I use for a lot of my mental baselines. And... Honestly... At the moment... There is NO REASON for CoSC to be on here. There's no navigation organization or central place to view a list of games. Unless you know what you're looking for, you aren't going to find anything on here. Once I feel like it's worthwhile (that the only place to find my site won't be in the Recent Changes list) and there are guidelines so I only have to setup the page once and not end up starting from scratch again, I'll put up a CoSC. Not before then. Not before this place looks like a site worth listing my game on. It should be implied that I intend to list CoSC here, considering I'm taking the time to get involved at all. I'm a perfectionist, it's part of my nature. Until I even know what my guidelines are, I'm not going to touch the project of adding CoSC here. [[User:Kitsufox| Kitsufox ]][[User talk:Kitsufox| Fox's Den]] 03:39, 4 February 2009 (UTC) *Sighs* Kitsu, I can't tell you how grateful I am that you're helping us, but it's time for someone to say something. 1. Jakks is right; if you aren't going to post CoSC, don't compare it. 2. I know the state of the wiki is horrible, but you have shown absolutely no respect for the wiki and it's staff, and you have acted many times like you're in charge. You're not. Please stop this. GB 00:22, 5 February 2009 (UTC) :I said it up there, but it must have gotten lost in the rant. I will add CoSC to this site. Once the listings for games (I can setup a really neat deal called using a script called DPL that will automatically list all game pages. I think you have a Namespace setup that will make it easy to do) are set up and the instructions for what you expect of a game page are made. (I don't have the time to create the page more than once. I won't waste time doing it wrong the first time around) I draw most of my comparisons to CoSC because that is the only RP I'm involved in (aside form an in progress AU warriors RP that isn't open yet). I apologize if you consider being willing to talk about the state of things as they as they are having 'no respect for the wiki'. But if you don't admit that things are sub-par, they never get better. WWiki was in an equally deplorable state when it was abandoned. If you'd rather, I could leave. But you have to understand, this *points up* It's the way I am. I'm a brutally honest, critical person with a perfectionist streak. So far, I've pulled punches and haven't hit on everything I think needs work. I've been on the most important things (like policy and getting organized). If you think I'm not permitted to make suggestions, or draw comparisons to the place I'm most familiar with, then I'm out. I have never once acted like I was in charge. I've made suggestions and explained why I think those changes should be made (hence the mentions of CoSC). I've phrased things like "you may wish to consider" or "you might want to". I've been making an effort to not be overbearing. You'll notice I'm not running around saything "this is the ruleset you should adopt" and "these are the standards you should use". I'm making suggestions on things you do. I'm acting in an advisory capacity. If you don't like how I do this, I can pack up and leave and not provide any sort of help to you. [[User:Kitsufox| Kitsufox ]][[User talk:Kitsufox| Fox's Den]] 00:32, 5 February 2009 (UTC) Kitsu, you have been a great help here. It would be a pity if you leave. Okay. I think the guideline should be like the NCC Articles. On the top we can put age and mentor. Then apprentices, appearance, and personality. Then under that we can put the history. GB, you can decide whether we will put it in sections like Kit-Hood, Apprenticeship, and As a Warrior. Do we have to write down an example of the guideline anywhere?--Jakko123 01:17, 5 February 2009 (UTC) That was for the articles about the cats. We already have a good one going for Clans. Then, for the RP we'll use the template. Then we'll put other info, like Latest Prophecy. You can choose some too.--Jakko123 01:19, 5 February 2009 (UTC) 1. Ok for what I meant my five pages, I mean five webpages on the site--for example, LakeClan has the home page, the allegiances, ets.--though five pages on the Wiki would be good, too. 2. Kitsu, I agree that we totally need your help on this site. But actually, I suggest you start acting on your ideas instead of ranting about them. For example, you could have come up with some guidelines for feature RP that we would approve instead of waiting for the staff members to do it. This is a Wiki; everyone is supposed to edit. 3. I agree on the Kit-Hood, Appreticeship, and As a Warrior format, though it won't work for every character. Like for former kittypets and rogues, and for cats who played a big part even after they died. So, for those respected characters, we could put an As a Kittypet (or in Butch's case, As a Housedog) or As a Rogue section, and a Member of StarClan section.--Shaf Girl 02:00, 5 February 2009 (UTC) :1.) "Five Pages" is a really fuzzy way to word it... IE: Not all games have a formal website, a lot simply use Proboards and store their game information on individual threads. I think just a different wording is in order, or maybe specific requirements. Many games I've browsed have individual pages for each clan, ect. That would mean between their forum index and the threads of allegiances they would qualify. I'm also not sure if wiki pages should be a standard. You're going to see good games in which the players simply won't be focused on pouring information about their site here, and rather putting that information on their own game's site and having what amounts to a page of brief information here. Not every site is going to want to have all their site information here. I do like your emphasis on the information being on the home site of the game, Shaf. I think it puts emphasis on this as a hub for the RP community rather than a home for it. :2.) I haven't defined any standards because it's your guys' site, not mine. I'm making an effort not to be controlling. Think about how smoothly it worked on the WRPWiki is NOT policy. You guys laid out what you wanted it to say. I just used my expertise and experience in rule-writing to clarify things and close some loopholes you'd left. I didn't want to walk in and start barking orders like a lunatic drill Sargent. I'm trying to work with, rather than lead. Think of it as a horse drawn carriage. The site is the carriage. Y'all are the horse and driver... Mostly, I'm trying to be the person sitting on the seat by the driver going "Eh, watch for that pothole.". :3.) You don't want to forget about alternate format games, either. IE: Warriors inspired games that are alternate universe. Maybe generic terms like Youth, Adolescence, Adulthood, and Old Age would be the way to go. Then they'd be able to apply to any character, and there's clear parallels to the life of a Clan cat (Kit-hood, Apprentice-hood, Warrior/leader/deputy-hood and elder-hood). You could even add something like "beyond the grave" from actions after death. :[[User:Kitsufox| Kitsufox ]][[User talk:Kitsufox| Fox's Den]] 18:40, 5 February 2009 (UTC) Well, yes, it's good that you aren't taking complete control. But it would be appreciated if you at least made some suggestions for the guidelines. And your format may work, but I've never seen Warrior games in an alternate universe...unless you count my RP, which is similar to warriors, but more inspired by Japanese animes. And saying Adolescence for a clan cat...just a tad odd. But it'll work. Though I think we need to change Youth to Childhood--Youth normally describes Childhood and Adolescence. Another thing: We often don't meet characters in the RP until their adults. Like Butch the buldog, for example. The only thing in the slightest importance about his childhood and adolescence is that he learned how to speak cat from his mother. But perhaps we can stretch it for these characters.--Shaf Girl 04:47, 6 February 2009 (UTC) :I was going to let y'all at least propose base requirements. :I was acctually using words that evoked life periods, rather than specific ranks. It's just convenient that the Warrior Ranks parallel them. :I've looked at a lot of games over the ages and have seen a number of Alternate Universe games. I'm acctually hosting a game that's being made right now that's Warriors AU at kitsufox.com. And maybe separating Player Characters (PC) from Non-player Characters (NPCs, which is what I'm guessing the bulldog is) might be advisable. Most games have a fair number of characters who're either historical and only mentioned in that sense or are villains and don't have more than a very rough past (Such as CoSC's Fisher, Sair Fen, who we only used to eliminate a bunch of unneeded characters). Even when PCs start the game "off screen"... They've still got a past. It's not like they just appeared. :[[User:Kitsufox| Kitsufox ]][[User talk:Kitsufox| Fox's Den]] 20:11, 6 February 2009 (UTC) For the characters whose childhood we don't see like Butch (who is not a Non-Player Character, I play him, though he isn't part of the story as much now), we could use a "Before the RP" section.--Shaf Girl 14:50, 7 February 2009 (UTC) :That definitely makes him sound like an NPC to me (NPC is just a catch-all term for bit-parts and characters who appear in games simply to fulfill a role in a plot or other similar setup and nothing more. PC is the catch all for those characters played by the "Players" in the game). And I'd hate to see a "before the RP" section. If you implement something like that, it would create a "before" and "after" sense that dosen't feel very organic to me. I like the idea of dwelling on the phases of the character's life rather than separating the life into 'before' and 'after' game-start. But... There is the question of what language you want to have people use in character pages. Will it be an approach like treating it as a coverage of the life of the individual as if it was a factual creature and you were writing a wikipedia article on them, or would it be more 'short version of information from the real game' sort of thing? I lean towards the idea of the latter, which wouldn't over-replicate the character sheets of the characters at their game proper. [[User:Kitsufox| Kitsufox ]][[User talk:Kitsufox| Fox's Den]] 01:30, 8 February 2009 (UTC) Ok. Well, I got the "Before the RP" idea from the "Before the Books" sections on the Warriors Wiki. I suppose we could go into more detail than that. I could say about Butch's childhood how he learned to speak cat, and he was sort of an adolecence when he met Wildfire (important character). And I think I ought to get a special signature. I'm a sysop, and I still haven't learned how to do that XD.--Shaf Girl 15:04, 8 February 2009 (UTC) Nevermind.--Shaf Girl 00:28, 9 February 2009 (UTC) SB resigned. That's one less admin. And I get the feeling FxC will be next. :/ GB 23:48, 15 February 2009 (UTC) FxC hasn't been on anywhere. :( And can anyone comment on me and Thorn's forums? Mine's about articles for plot points, and Thorn's is about battle articles.--Shaf Girl 01:14, 17 February 2009 (UTC) Oh, woops. Thorn's was on Warriors Wiki.--Shaf Girl 02:55, 17 February 2009 (UTC) Do you think we should approve the Warriors RP Wiki IS NOT guideline?--Jakko123 22:09, 22 February 2009 (UTC) Should we change all the articles to the same format as Mousestar (NCC) and Whitestar (CoLP)?--Jakko123 23:13, 8 March 2009 (UTC)